Forks (and knives)

The Club of all those banned or deleted form the "official" FlightGear forum for speaking out political inconvenient truths or just things, the rulers over there didn't want to hear.
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IAHM-COL
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Forks (and knives)

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:09 am

Ubuntu is a hostile fork?

Well. the reality is that opensource projects are a complex family that ressembles philogeny science. Derivation is a fact. Hostility? seems too emotionality charged to be even considered an argument.

Look at the debian family history-line and its complexities, summarized in a mind buggling scheme. (click image for larger version)

Image

I found intriguing that the most succesful distros give rise to larger families of variants, some of which are very common and well-spread. Ubuntu is clearly a nice derivative in terms of less say market share and audience, to debian.
I notice most obscure distros don't fork and actually die in the timeline much sooner. In a philogenetic perspective? Not evolution and extinction?
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R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:52 am

It is important to mention, once again that FGMEMBERS is not a fork of Flightgear.

You can't fly in FGMEMBERS. You have to use Flightgear to use the FGMEMBERS content.
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R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby KL-666 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:16 am

By all the definitions of (hostile) fork i have seen, even the ones that Bugman quoted recently, a fork is always a complete project. An addon does not fit the definition at all. I am baffled that at the other forum people manage to twist an addon into the definition of fork. Are they all dyslectic or so?

Kind regards, Vincent

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby jwocky » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:47 pm

Vincent, that is about use of language. If people use often enough a word or a whole term wrong, they create an impression they can project outward. It's how propaganda works. The stress on that line was anyway not on technical realities, it was on that one word "hostile". It was intended to stamp us. I could of course bring a long list of historical examples for that use of language, but historical examples are not populat nowadays.
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:53 pm

Yes. (I fully agree with that assesment, @JWocky)

Besides I wanted to remember the first message of SHM on this board after he was permanently banned from King George III's FlightGear forum (A.K.A Curtis' Forum), was to cite Ubuntu's creator own words on the "Ubuntu is a hostile fork" thing, bugman proudly flags.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=607&p=10589#p10586
SHM wrote:Interesting thing to read.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth#Is_Ubuntu_a_Debian_fork.3F_Or_spoon.3F_What_sort_of_silverware_are_you.2C_man.3F

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They are just turning worse by the day. Ain't they?



I Strongly recommend following the recommended read by SM, as a very well written and enlightening assay about the nature of opensource and its dining-table manners.

For what is Worth, I paraphrase almost the entire content below
Mark Shuttleworth wrote:Why is this important? Because passing patches around is not nearly as effective as working in a genuinely distributed revision control system. Many of the Ubuntu guys don't work on the distro, they work on tools like Bazaar, and HCT, which we hope will really accelerate the kind of collaboration that is possible in the open source world. Time will tell.

In summary: binary compatibility between Ubuntu and Debian is not a priority for us. We believe we contribute more to the open source world by providing patches to make Ubuntu (and Debian) packages work better, and providing a cutting edge (or bleeding edge, depending on your perspective) distribution for others to collaborate with. We invest a lot of energy in making sure our patches are widely published and easily available to developers of ALL other distributions as well as upstream, because that way we think our work will have the biggest long term benefit. And we develop tools (see Bazaar and Bazaar-NG and Launchpad and Rosetta and Malone) that we hope will make source code collaboration even more efficient.

What about forking the community? The Ubuntu community has grown very quickly, and that causes some people to worry that this growth might come at some cost to other open source communities, Debian in particular.

Given that patches can flow so easily between Ubuntu and Debian, it seems to me that the bigger we can make our total combined developer community, the better for both projects. Ubuntu benefits from a strong Debian, and Debian benefits from a strong Ubuntu. This is particularly true because the two projects have slightly different goals. Ubuntu gets to break new ground sooner, and Debian benefits hugely from those patches (just scan changelogs in Debian Sid since the Sarge release, and you'll see how many references to "Ubuntu" are in there. And that's only the cases where credit has been given. incentive If the Ubuntu and Debian communities worked in the same way, then I think there would be more truth to this concern, because we would attract the same sorts of people, which would mean that we were competing for talent. But the two communities are quite different. We organise ourselves differently, and we set different priorities. That means that we tend to attract different sorts of developers.

Now, there are certainly Debian developers who have started doing most of their work in Ubuntu now. There are also developers who work equally in Ubuntu and Debian. But the majority of the Ubuntu community is made up of newer developers, who are attracted to the Ubuntu way of doing things. There will always be some churn and movement between communities, and thats healthy because it helps to spread good ideas.
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R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:29 pm

I believe I never heard this much no-sense repeated without shame

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic. ... 15#p293797
(Bugman plays the monotone again)

Also, @D-ECHO, if you find a copyright infridgement in any content in FGMEMBERS please point it out specifically (you can either send me an email, a PM or post or leave a issue on the corresponding repo), and if you are correct I'll do my best at addressing it. Otherwise, it maybe one of your disadvantages is just repeated non-sense.

PS:
@D-ECHO,
I forgot to mention I am also unaware that FGMEMBERS aircraft or SCENERY (or terraGIT) could be not "embed" as well to FlightGear.
I use them all the time without "embedding problems".
So, that's for your 2nd disadvantage: I found it quite a surprise.
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R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby KL-666 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:22 am

Poor Pinto. He has got the view on forks so right, yet will he get an answer? I guess not because the other forum does not like truth. But if he does, it will be a load of lies from BuggyBoy again.

Re: How the project works

Postby PINTO » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:13 pm

Just wanted to point something out...

bugman wrote in Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:15 pm:
A normal fork is defined as contributing back to the project (the maintainers of the fork create merge requests, or equivalent, asking for certain changes to go back upstream).


That's not actually true. A fork is just a derivation of source code, no merging back necessary. Google can come up with more sources than I can list to support this.

In fact, almost every major fork in the opensource world would be considered "not-normal" by your definition. Almost every derivation of a *nix distro, *BSD, LibreOffice, Nethack, Apache HTTP servers, OpenSSH, Inkscape, WordPress, XOrg... the list goes on.

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267&p=293800#p293800


Kind regards, Vincent

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby LesterBoffo » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:34 am

Image

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IAHM-COL
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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby IAHM-COL » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:16 am

HAHA
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If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby FL2070 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:28 pm

LOL!!!
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