Forks (and knives)

The Club of all those banned or deleted form the "official" FlightGear forum for speaking out political inconvenient truths or just things, the rulers over there didn't want to hear.
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IAHM-COL
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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby IAHM-COL » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:54 am

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic. ... 70#p294931
Wllbragg wrote:
What is the private data you're referring to and where was it located, specifically?


I can't answer that specifically, but I can answer it this way.

I get the AirCrane from fgaddon, I start working on it on my private server. I write some new code to make towing cargo a possibility. New textures, new nasal, new xml. I have not decided what license I plan to put on my new additions or when I am going to publish it. Maybe in the end if it is too much work or I come up with some really unique Idea I won't license it GPL.
Now I post a link on a public server to a part of the new code that happens to be in the same folder as some of the original GPL files asking for help from a fellow developer named Joe to solve a particular problem am am having with the new code.
Is it OK or legal for anyone to grab that code and publish it in any fashion what so ever?
What about the GPL code that happens to reside in the same folder, is it OK or legal for anyone to grab that code and publish it?
What about the GPL code that happens to reside in the same folder that I have extended with new code I have written, is it OK or legal for anyone to grab that code and publish it?

I think not in any of those cases as I never gave my permission to anyone but Joe to do anything with my copyrighted property.


@Wllbragg:

Are you really this confused? Have you taken the time to read the license?

Let me help you.
1. Read ALL off
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.en.html
(don't slack around, those are the rules of the game!)


2. A few underlined lines from me, to guide you through:

Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed

Translation: No. It is not OK to alter the text of the license.

For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have

This is, by distributing your modded crane, you are required (not a voluntary action of your part) to keep all rights intact. This is, it was GPL before you and after you.

Having this public repository:
https://github.com/wlbragg/AirCrane
DOES constitute distribution. There is no way around it. There is nothing private on it.
Github shows the fork button right there, and you can't ask for its removal.

We protect your rights with two steps: (1) copyright the software, and (2) offer you this license which gives you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify the software.

It was illegal for you to modify and distribute before the license. GPL granted you the right to make your own crane. Without it such property (of Helijah) was protected by copyrights law and would have made it impossible for you to go ahead an alter such software. You can compare this to more restrictive licenses and EULAS as those you can see for MS Windows, per example.

1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program.

This one is really really important.
It means, the work is to remain clearly and visible labelled as GPL even after you.
No, ammendments (as said above), no new clauses. And such license should be clearly disclaimed beyond any margin on doubt.

2.
b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof,to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License

Can this be written much more clearly than this. Obvious, clear english. But I'll try translating for you.

The 2nd condition of the license says, any time you distribute or publish your modified version of GPL software, either it contains
IN WHOLE, or
IN PARTS, or
IS DERIVED FROM THE PROGRAM or ANY PART THEREOF...

So if your modded version can be considered any of the three things above, then
It must be licensed as a whole to all third parties (all the third parties do include people/group/organizations you may not fully like) under the terms of the license


2b is ACTUALLY the copyleft provision that is telling you

No. You cannot use the GPL content and have publicly available content of yours that you deem "all rights reserved" within it.
Doing so constitutes and immediate violation of your license. Which is the only piece of document that did allow you to make such modifications, and without such license you are ILLEGALLY modifying and/or distributing this content.

So either you accept the license (umnodified license means, including 2b), or you don't accept the license which removes immediately and irrevocably your ability to 1) copy, 2) study, 3) modify and 4) redistribute.
Your doing any of the 4th above does constitute acceptance of the license (including 2b),. Which as a conclusion means, you are licensing all the content as GPL.
If you DO NOT WISH TO COMPLY WITH THE GPL in its entirety your only path is to STOP DISTRIBUTING your modded versions immediately and to perpetuity by any and all means
(emailing a version to a close friends IS a method of distribution, and your friend as such inherits the whole GPL, meaning you could not possibly, legally, prohibit him to distribute further)

The license goes further into clarifying WHAT CONSTITUTES WHOLE WORK

These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works.


So, it is telling you that if you wish to apply a DIFFERENT license to GPL to your modification, the you are to NOT INCLUDE GPL MATERIAL in your ALL RIGHTS RESERVED MATERIAL.

You cannot make a LICENSE LIST FILE which says
Directory A = GPL
Directory B = Dont open
Directory C = Another incompatible license
DIrectory D = My all rights reserved

YOU CANNOT.

The license is clear as it can be: WHEN YOU DISTRIBUTE THEM AS SEPARATE WORKS!!

IF you distribute as a whole (not separated work), then GPL applies to the whole content. Otherwise YOU are violating the license. Not anyone else that dares to take the content from the public server (*as github or sourceforge*).\

And as such, the license continues

Thus, it is not the intent of this section to claim rights or contest your rights to work written entirely by you; rather, the intent is to exercise the right to control the distribution of derivative or collective works based on the Program.


And more specifically, the answer to your question is provision 4, that tells you: YOU CANNOT

4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except as expressly provided under this License.


And 5 reinforces it telling you, only by accepting this license you can go ahead and use the software (and it means the license in its entirety, including the provision 2b that you guys seem too keen to ignore, so 5 reads

You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law if you do not accept this License.


Back to point, 6 will tell you again, that if you create a repository that is publicly accesible, you are IMMEDIATELY AND UNDENIABLY passing the GPL onto others for all that content

Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions.


It's that simple....

In computers you will normally get RTFM (Read the Fucking Manual) as a first solution to your problem.

Here,
RTFL
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/IAHM-COL/gpg-pubkey/master/pubkey.asc

R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

KL-666
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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby KL-666 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:29 am

When it is not clear what capabilities someone has, i always start off with the optimistic view.

So i thought Thorsten was the only one incapable of understanding a reasonably simple legal document. But the others must surely be different. Just for some reason they did not want to educate Thorsten.

Now Wlbragg is repeating Thorstens fantasies about gpl quite big mouthed and lengthy. And no one over there is correcting him either.

This is too much display of ignorance allowed, to still believe that there is somebody over there that is actually literate (at least no one has demonstrated to be yet). Slowly i start to believe that there is a whole group of people incapable of understanding a reasonably simple legal document.

I think we have to become very cautious with working together with these people, because their non-understanding of gpl may get collaborators in legal trouble too.

Kind regards, Vincent

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jwocky
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Re: Forks (and knives)

Postby jwocky » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:43 pm

Well, there are two kind of collaborators. In most cases, it is just, that Thorsten stole GPL material for his non-GPL works, that keeps the authors of the GPL parts clean because they didn't partake in the felony but were actually victims of it.
And those who follow Thorsten's footsteps and commit license scams, theft of creative works and other felonies ... well, at this point, everybody over there should know what is going on. The information is there. There is no excuse anymore. Denial is usually no mitigating circumstance, unless someone there wants to go with an insanity defense.
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!


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