Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

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airzona
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Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby airzona » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:09 pm

Howdy folks. I'm really sad that no model for the Bell H-13 "Sioux" helicopter exists for FlightGear (that I know of -- I googled like crazy).

I've never created a FlightGear aircraft before. However, I have created many liveries, modified XML files, and things along those lines. My question(s) to you experienced aircraft builders is, can you recommend resources where I should go to start either learning how to build from scratch, or port a model from another flight sim such as Flight Simulator X or whatever? Is it easier to port to build from scratch?

Thanks in advance for any advice, feedback or tomatoes thrown in my direction! :)

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Falcon
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby Falcon » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:54 pm

From what I know coming from X-Plane, everything is Cc. You will need the expressed permission of the author(s) to port over. Otherwise kiss everything you own goodbye.

bomber
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby bomber » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:40 pm

I'd have expected for this to have been corrected by now.
"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell

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jwocky
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby jwocky » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:45 pm

There are several parts to the problem:

1.) You need a model, strictly in the 3D sense. There are some in the Internet to buy, but they have different licenses and you may want to ask the authors about that, but it comes down usually to CC agreements or sometimes, someone says, fine for the flightsim, but don't give away the model alone, and again other have built it for other games for free, but it became part of bigger and licenses packages (because someone took their GPL work and places it in his work and "forgot" to respect the original license), and say, okay, why not FG too? So, asking authors can give you the most surprising results.
The other way is, you find someone here who can build the thing, for example in Blender. I know, IAHM-COL has used Blender also to convert other formats, because in the end, you need it in .ac for FlightGear. Some few people can do that, alas, I was never good enough in 3d :(

2.) once you have a model, it can be used to build the helicopter for FG. Animations, engine simulation, FDM, all that stuff. Currently, almost all helicopters run on Yasim. So you can try to find a helicopter not too different as some kind of inspiration. "Not too different" as in maybe as a guideline for a Sioux not a zwo-main-rotor Mi-12, but something with one main rotor and a tail rotor.

3.) The whole thing build down to build something along the same file-structure with the aerodynamic information of the Sioux. Means, you basically write those files with the Sioux-data. You need for that of course the information about the Sioux, as in a lot of research about the original real world helicopter. Engines, rotor diameters, dimensions, weights, whatever you can get.

Point 2+3 scare people most, but we have a lot of guys here who know how to do it, so every new aircraft has it's own moments. The 3d part is the one that will be the problem because it seems, that is a lot of contacting people all around or find one of those rare modeler guys here who can do it. Thus, start with the hunt for a 3d modeler or someone who made already a Sioux. Once you have a 3d model, the rest can be probably done here in the community.
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!

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it0uchpods
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby it0uchpods » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:52 am

Yeah not possible, unless its explicitly specified that the exact part you are taking (3D model) is GPL, or you have permission to take it.

The systems/FDE/etc is NOT COMPATIBLE with FGFS, and can never be ported. It must be rewritten from the scratch.

Take an example the tu-154b. The Project Tupolev tu-154 team for FSX gave permission for the 3D models to be taken and made GPL for FGFS.

If you're up for a learning curve, and want to join our Dev Slack, I can help you learn to model Aircraft. (Sadly I don't do much 3D, but I can do the rest ;) )

But coding wise, I'd be happy to help!

Kind regards,
Josh
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bomber
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby bomber » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:12 am

No no no no no....the bit about the 3d model is simply not true.

It does not need to be GPL and even this repository has a non GPL section...
"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell

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it0uchpods
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby it0uchpods » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:18 pm

Well, there is a CC license that allows the same thing, but my point is, if you don't have permission, or the license doesn't allow just taking it, (most won't), then you cant legally.
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bomber
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby bomber » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:24 pm

then your point is wrong.... as CC license gives permission for anyone to copy, modify and distribute...

If YOU are quite happy with anyone being able to make money ie sell your work then GPL is the license for you, otherwise it's CC... but other than that they're the same.
"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell

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IAHM-COL
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby IAHM-COL » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:28 pm

CC and GPL are not <<the same, with subtle commercial distinctions>> ....
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall

bomber
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Re: Porting Aircraft from Other Flight Sims

Postby bomber » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:59 pm

GPL AND CC both allow copying
GPL AND CC both allow modifying
GPL AND CC both allow distributing

GPL allows commercialisation whilst CC doesn't...

Now if you're talking GPL's desire for people to not bundle different license together, well that's a different story, and is ONLY a desire so as to not cause confusion...
There is a compatibility range between various license, but at the end of the day to match up with GPL your license of choice must allow commercialisation of your work.

I chose CC, even if that means I can be derided, because by doing so I help to prevent people from being frauded out of their money by bogus FG copies being rebranded and sold on the internet... Using GPL in my opinion contributes to it's continuation.

Simon
"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell


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