EDDF-Triangle

How to make pilots finding airports ...
KL-666
Posts: 1610
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:42 am

EDDF-Triangle

Postby KL-666 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:12 pm

Lydiot wrote:
- When people do the right thing, and then someone tells them they did the wrong thing, they want to explain that they were right.

- When they do try to explain that they were right, if they were right, the response to that shouldn't really be "Don't argue with me or I'll ignore you" but "oh, sorry, I was wrong". You're not a dictator, you're a human being, just like everyone else. If your response to them trying to explain that they did the right thing is "Don't discuss this with me or I'll ignore you" then people will think that you're a crazy self-obsessed lunatic and not like you.

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13009&p=297200&sid=84c3f1d875e0d00fca8d64136b08e841#p297199


You are very right in an environment where there are no other responsibilities than just chat about. But in the game of ATC flying there is the responsibility to give other pilots instructions in a timely manner. No one should be so self-centered as to hijack the channel because he feels entitled to discuss and mess up other peoples flights. If he has a problem he can file a complaint afterwards e.g. on the forum.

So in the game of ATC flying rule no. 1 is: Do not discuss.

Many ATC's "wrong" me so once in a while. But i never discuss on channel, because i do not want to ruin other peoples flights.

Kind regards, Vincent

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Side
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:33 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Side » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:05 pm

KL-666 wrote:You are very right in an environment where there are no other responsibilities than just chat about. But in the game of ATC flying there is the responsibility to give other pilots instructions in a timely manner. No one should be so self-centered as to hijack the channel because he feels entitled to discuss and mess up other peoples flights. If he has a problem he can file a complaint afterwards e.g. on the forum.

So in the game of ATC flying rule no. 1 is: Do not discuss.

Many ATC's "wrong" me so once in a while. But i never discuss on channel, because i do not want to ruin other peoples flights.

Kind regards, Vincent

+1

Lydiot
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Lydiot » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:09 pm

KL-666 wrote:
Lydiot wrote:
- When people do the right thing, and then someone tells them they did the wrong thing, they want to explain that they were right.

- When they do try to explain that they were right, if they were right, the response to that shouldn't really be "Don't argue with me or I'll ignore you" but "oh, sorry, I was wrong". You're not a dictator, you're a human being, just like everyone else. If your response to them trying to explain that they did the right thing is "Don't discuss this with me or I'll ignore you" then people will think that you're a crazy self-obsessed lunatic and not like you.

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13009&p=297200&sid=84c3f1d875e0d00fca8d64136b08e841#p297199


You are very right in an environment where there are no other responsibilities than just chat about. But in the game of ATC flying there is the responsibility to give other pilots instructions in a timely manner. No one should be so self-centered as to hijack the channel because he feels entitled to discuss and mess up other peoples flights. If he has a problem he can file a complaint afterwards e.g. on the forum.

So in the game of ATC flying rule no. 1 is: Do not discuss.

Many ATC's "wrong" me so once in a while. But i never discuss on channel, because i do not want to ruin other peoples flights.

Kind regards, Vincent


Do you want to go through some of his videos and watch HIM "discuss on channel"? Probably not. Because the truth is that when HE decides to yell or "discuss" it's ok, it's just that it's not ok for anyone else to do it.

This isn't real life. This is a bunch of people flying for fun in a game.

Now, Jomo has choices as to how he expresses himself and how he behaves. Just like everyone else has a choice. Since the multiplayer isn't proprietary and there isn't an ability to lock players out there's another issue one has to be completely aware of: You can't prevent others from doing what they want on MP. Since this is the case the best thing to do is to be productive.

So, the question is this - Which is more productive in the long term:

a) Taking X amount of seconds to write a nasty ALL CAPS MESSAGE to a pilot that didn't do what he was supposed to do because he didn't understand terminology, or

b) Taking the same X seconds to explain what that terminology means..

???





As an example, if you look at yesterday's video you'll see BAW2334 incorrectly line up after ACA873 takes off. Obviously an error in procedure. Jomo's response is:

"WHO ALLOWED YOU ONTU RUNWAY!!!!!!!!!!! CAN YOU DO ANYTHING RIGHT?"

Now, if this BAW2334 is someone who didn't try to screw things up, but simply misunderstood procedure, the above comment is terrible. It's terrible because it's basically just yelling and calling a person completely incompetent. BAW2334 then says:

"Speedbird 2334, holding short of rwy 25C" - clearly this is wrong. He's not holding short, he's lined up on runway. So, clearly he doesn't understand terminology. What are the options here?

Jomo: "BAW2334: You are lying -- That means you are neglected -- I have better things to do!"

"lying" is a bit of a harsh word, no? Regardless, here's what he could have written instead: "Holding short means you are OFF the runway". In fact, that's what I wrote to BAW2334. And what did he say? "LOL SORRY" and then he taxied OFF the runway.

So, with one short sentence I accomplished two things:

1) I educated him on the meaning of "holding short" (or part of it - what it does not mean)
2) I got him to actually exit the runway

Then,

BAW2334: "Speedbird 2334 now ACTUALLY holding short of rwy 25C"
Jomo: "YOU HAD BEEN IGNORED -- try next time following advises"

So, now that the guy learned something and moved off the runway to comply with commands Jomo still yells in all caps and continues to ignore the guy.BAW then explains it was only his second time under ATC and that he was trying to follow commands. Jomo continues to ignore the guy and he finally says "SCREW THIS", takes off anyway, and says that the next time he sees Jomo he won't bother.

Completely unnecessary.



And,

Jomo: "SKY 111: circle right down to 5000ft"
SKY111: "ATCjomo: circle right to 5000ft"
Jomo: "SKY 111: pls confirm all orders!"

Ask yourself at this point - did SKY111 confirm the order? Yes, yes he did. Did Jomo have any way of seeing this? Yes, yes he did, because it was all highlighted right below the field in which he typed his comments.... so;

SKY111: "ATCjomo: I just did"
Jomo: "SKY 111: Do not try to discuss with me or you are neglected!"

In other words: I'm always right, and don't try to tell me I'm not or I'll neglect you.

There's one standard for Jomo when he's the ATC, and another standard for everyone else.
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oscar6662
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:49 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby oscar6662 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:26 pm

Lydiot I absoultely agree with you
[url]Image[/url]

KL-666
Posts: 1610
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:42 am

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby KL-666 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:22 pm

Som Tin Wong with you, Lydiot? I gave you an argument why not to argue on channel. Yet you do not go into ruining other peoples flights, but just repeat how bad ATC conducted. If you understand my argument, you would know that it does not matter how bad ATC conducted. All that matters is: do not discuss and ruin other peoples flights. So you are discussing less than a side show here.

Kind regards, Vincent

Lydiot
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Lydiot » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:06 pm

KL-666 wrote:Som Tin Wong with you, Lydiot?


I don't know. Som Tin Wong with you?

KL-666 wrote: I gave you an argument why not to argue on channel. Yet you do not go into ruining other peoples flights, but just repeat how bad ATC conducted. If you understand my argument, you would know that it does not matter how bad ATC conducted. All that matters is: do not discuss and ruin other peoples flights.


I understand perfectly well what you said, I just disagree with you. But look at my example - and think about it for a second:

Suppose someone was coming in for landing. BAW2334 was not acting the way he should, and he was on MP. By giving one different comment compared to Jomo's infantile yelling I got BAW to move off of the runway - AND - he learned something in the process. So, by NOT talking to him the way I did he would CONTINUE "ruining other peoples flights" because he was still on MP, and he would have learned nothing other than that Jomo is yelling a lot and making derogatory comments.

Do you really not see how the ATCs actions will influence how others behave, which in turn will influence how you will be affected by their behavior?

KL-666 wrote:So you are discussing less than a side show here.

Kind regards, Vincent


I don't understand what that means.
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KL-666
Posts: 1610
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:42 am

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby KL-666 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:20 pm

Lydiot wrote:I understand perfectly well what you said, I just disagree with you.


Well, well, you disagree? With what do you disagree? You want to maintain that we are in a girly chatroom? Well i do not. I say we play a game of ATC, where you do not ruin other peoples flights.

So well, there is the difference. Girly chatroom versus playing ATC. Our difference will clearly not get together soon.

Kind regards, Vincent

Lydiot
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Lydiot » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:51 pm

KL-666 wrote:
Lydiot wrote:I understand perfectly well what you said, I just disagree with you.


Well, well, you disagree? With what do you disagree?


Is it not obvious what I'm disagreeing with? I'm saying that an ATC that is friendly rather than acts like an asshole is going to make the MP experience better for everyone, and I'm saying that an ATC that helps pilots become better at flying under ATC will make the MP experience better.

KL-666 wrote:You want to maintain that we are in a girly chatroom? Well i do not.


I don't even know what a "girly chatroom" is. I'm guessing you do. Why you know what that is I have no idea. I can only guess I suppose.

KL-666 wrote:I say we play a game of ATC, where you do not ruin other peoples flights.


Being a rude ATC ruins other people's flights.

And you seem to not comprehend what I told you earlier: By being constructive you can get an MP player to NOT ruin other people's flights, as opposed to acting like an ass which only promotes bad behavior. Do you really think it's a coincidence that Jomo's airport has way more trolls than other ATC'd airports???

KL-666 wrote:So well, there is the difference. Girly chatroom versus playing ATC. Our difference will clearly not get together soon.

Kind regards, Vincent


"girly chatroom".... lol.... dolt....
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Lydiot
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Lydiot » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:55 pm

Vincent, is this:

"Holding short means you are OFF the runway"

"girly chatroom" talk? I'm curious.
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KL-666
Posts: 1610
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:42 am

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby KL-666 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:59 pm

Lydiot wrote:Do you really think it's a coincidence that Jomo's airport has way more trolls than other ATC'd airports???


Stop being bicurious. I never heard such a silly girly argument in my life.

Kind regards, Vincent


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