New Boeing 737-800

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GabrielYV
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby GabrielYV » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:23 pm

Hello everyone, sorry I was busy.
I have new improvements for the 737 800:
The new lightmap is almost complete, A new effect has also been realized on the fuselage and wings Thanks to D-ECHO, Which is now a little more real. I'll leave some photos, Many corrections were made and soon the new electrical system with @it0uchpods This weekend will push everything except the electrical system that still needs work If anyone wants to help us, you will be welcome. I am trying to work in the fdm but it is very difficult for my little knowledge, If anyone knows a bit of this I would appreciate it. Thanks
Regards Gabriel Hernandez.

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IAHM-COL
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby IAHM-COL » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:28 pm

great news :D
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/IAHM-COL/gpg-pubkey/master/pubkey.asc

R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

KL-666
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby KL-666 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:43 pm

What is the great news? That there is a terriffic visual model without a fdm? Gabriel indicated that he needs help on the fdm. Anyonone with such knowledge?

Kind regards, Vincent

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GabrielYV
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby GabrielYV » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:56 am

KL-666 wrote:What is the great news? That there is a terriffic visual model without a fdm? Gabriel indicated that he needs help on the fdm. Anyonone with such knowledge?

Kind regards, Vincent


Ok first my english is not very good, I do my best to speak English.
As I understand this plane needs the model 3D and systems
Can look for this plane as it was before had no model systems, lights, sounds and good AP "NOTHING".
I do my best to improve. Is not great news for you but many asked me this long ago, That improvement was completed many days ago.
Now I work the new electrical system with @it0uchpods But we need time. It is not easy to work a plane when before had not even 15% completed
If you want to notice the difference download the version of soitanen and you will notice a better work. i study and I go through difficult times now I do my best to work on the 737 800 because it is my favorite plane both here and in real life. I said that I do not have much knowledge in the work of the fdm.
But previously I made important changes in the fdm wicht @it0uchpods and jwocky Ask if anyone knows how to improve fdm or at least fix a little
The plane has fdm And fly well ;) All with patience we can achieve good changes in the 737 800.If you do not understand me, I'm sorry, I'm trying to write my best.
Regards Gabriel Hernandez(YV123B-YV3399)

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GabrielYV
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby GabrielYV » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:04 am

IAHM-COL wrote:great news :D



Thanks IAHM-COL
Soon things will come better in systems etc

Octal450
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby Octal450 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:54 am

Don't worry
@jwocky and I have made improvements, and continuing to improve it. I do agree with you that I have found not one JSB FDM that I like to fly. But I can name many Yasim...

Worst comes to worst, we change to Yasim, which I have been doing alot of learning with!

But @jwocky is working it, and I am trying to work it.

The biggest issue is the engine - pitch ratio and "bouncy" flight controls. We are working it, so I think it will be okay soon enough.

@gabrielYV
your english gets better every monthes very good :)

KL-666
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby KL-666 » Wed May 24, 2017 1:57 am

I tested the plane from the Soitanen repository. Not sure if that is the same as we are talking about here. But i am amazed with the fdm. It is actually pretty good. The thing i like most about it, is that the pitch and power settings are quite the same as in the manual.

Yet there are some things i would like to see different, or which are incomplete.

1) I might be mistaken, but to my feeling there is no inertia with control deflection. The effect is as quick at the start as later on. But setting the weight of the plane in motion should take some time at the beginning. Say you pitch, then the weight of the whole body needs to get into motion around it's axis. With aileron input the inertia should be less, because the weight of the wings around it's axis is less than the weight of the body. All in all, the effect of control inputs should be slow at the beginning, due to inertia.

2) There is no mach switch on the AP panel (IAS/mach switch)

3) The reverser toggle code on my stick does not work. I'd rather not change that in the stick, as it works for every other plane. So getting this plane in line with all other planes seems a better idea.

4) Driving the plane with the keyboard (tiller) drives me crazy. It would be nice to have an option to turn off tiller steering, and steer with rudder inputs.

5) The autopilot kill-switch does not kill all options. I have to flick off all green buttons too.

6) Normally when the plane is on, hitting autostart shuts down the plane. Here i have no idea how to shut down. The fuel switches near the power levers do not work.

7) There is no pushback. Need to abuse reversers for that.

Anyway, still a very good plane, and i will fly/test it further.

Kind regards, Vincent

Octal450
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby Octal450 » Wed May 24, 2017 2:12 am

Please try the YV3399 one. All those issues you mentioned have been fixed. The Soitanen one hasn't been updated in almost a year (I think)

The reverser thing is a JSB thing. I can be "hacked" to work with the Yasim properties, but its not so simple. I could put a setlistener on it, but that feels rather hackish. In my A320Family, for example, I built a completely custom thrust system, in which the DEL key for reverser, and the standard reverser keys WILL NOT WORK. Simply you must assign a new keys to the joystick to fly that plane, but I will soon figure out a way to make DEL work. (Maybe just as a full toggle)

The 2 ways to shut down the YV3399 737-800:
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If your could test it at http://www.github.com/YV3399/737-800.git
If you have an issues or comments:
Any Systems/Autoflight/FDM/Instruments issues to me
Any Modelling/Instruments/Effects/Sounds/Etc issues to Gabriel

Kind Regards,
Josh

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jwocky
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby jwocky » Wed May 24, 2017 3:56 am

Okay, just a few hints:

1.) the reversers can be built in JSB only as "reversers", means, you can set the angle of the thrust around. You can copy it from the Ruslan, the 767s, the Loreley, it is in so many planes, really.

Code: Select all

togglereverser = func(eng) {
   if (getprop("controls/engines/engine["~eng~"]/throttle")<0.1) {
      if (getprop("engines/engine["~eng~"]/reverser")) {
         setprop("fdm/jsbsim/propulsion/engine["~eng~"]/reverser-angle-rad", 3.14);
         setprop("engines/engine["~eng~"]/reverser_pos_norm", 1.00);
      } else {
         setprop("fdm/jsbsim/propulsion/engine["~eng~"]/reverser-angle-rad", 0.00);
         setprop("engines/engine["~eng~"]/reverser_pos_norm", 0.00);
      }
   }
}


This is a little Nasal to toggle the reversers. eng=engine number starting with 0. Now this one controls if the throttle is down before it allows you to set reversers or go back forward, like in reality, if you don't want that, just cancel the outer "if".


2.) "Bouncy flight controls". This is not FDM, that is AP. Your controllers overreact, either because you use a too coarse granularity on PIDs or some limiters are too wide. Not sure. But if flight controls like the elevator go up and down like a shiver, it is AP, never FDM, the FDM only take the settings the AP makes and simulates the aircraft accordingly.
Having said that, it can be, the AP overreacts on a balance or moment problem. The first thing, one has to realize when going from Yasim to JSB is, that JSB actually simulates the momentums, Yasim does that only rudimentary. So if you start a motion, for example starting to pivot the plane nose up, the momentum doesn't end the same 1/100s you move the elevator, the momentum needs to be stopped and reversed. That is how real world physics works. So, if you AP goes like every 1/60s and checks and finds, "oh my nose is still not down", he sets the elevator more to press the nose down. Means, after some cycles, you have stopped the old up momentum and have now an extreme elevator position and create a gigantonormous down momentum, which you at the end of the motion try to stop again instantaneously. Which of course doesn't work, so your AP does the same overreaction now in the other direction. I am very sorry that real world got in the way of Yasim dreams.


3.) If you still think, it is an FDM problem, for example a balance problem, fly her manually in different load situations. You can't even test for balance problems with an AP on because the AP would either add his own problems to everything and you don't see any problems actually coming from the FDM or in case of my APs (never said, mine are perfect), they would just level the problem out and fly the plane, regardless how lousy the balance is and all you would see would for example some nose-up or down attitude after she levels out. Which makes FDM balance problems also virtually impossible. So, fly her manually, see, if you have to do a lot of correcting and namely look for extreme reactions for example with throttle changes (in many planes, the thrusters are actually lower than the center of gravity, that gives planes a slight up-momentum when the throttle is pushed)


So, bottom line:
@Gabriel: Yes, do systems and model and all the bells and whistles or you end up like I did with the Ruslan, she flies perfect, but model, cockpit, systems ... duuuh ... and as long as Israel is caught up with RL, I don't get model work done. :( :( :( and as my luck goes, when Israel si back, I am busy with RL. So, do what you can while you can!

@Joshua: This happened now with how many planes, always this term "bouncy" and I still try to understand what you try to tell me ... which makes me think more and more, the whole thing happens because the JSB planes do something the Yasim planes do only very rarely and rudimentary: Simulate momentum. Fly her manually and if that works, try to run your controllers with less ki and adapted ti and td. If you have to fight with reaching the programmed altitude (too much overshooting for example) or course (be it magnetic or true, overshooting usually), take a look at the times of your predictors and make them longer for a test.

@Vincent: Planes like this one are some kind of work of Art. What is not needed is crying about the things you want or don't want but rather a pilots with a very sensible grip on the joystick. So, take her out, fly her manually till you know about the balance, take her through the turns with different loads, provide the devs with data!

J
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!

Octal450
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Re: New Boeing 737-800

Postby Octal450 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:55 am

Yes, but see this is the issue. Yasim sets revsersers on that property, so Vincent uses a toggle binding on his joystick. In JSB, I'd have to have a setlistener.

All the rest has been long fixed. I learned a lot about PID controllers a few months ago, and since then, it flies very nicely.

Kind Regards,
Josh


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